Author Leona Cobham, granddaughter of aviation pioneer Sir Alan Cobham, talks about her middle grade book Flying Circus Takes to the Skies, featuring four anthropomorphic vintage aircraft and their adventures

In this interview with Leona Cobham, granddaughter of pioneering pilot and aviation advocate, Sir Alan Cobham, we talk about her wonderful middle grade book, Flying Circus Takes to the Skies, which features the adventures of four anthropomorphic vintage aircraft: Spiff, the Spitfire; Vul, the Vulcan; Tom, the Tomcat; and Woody, the Tiger Moth. Leona was inspired to write the book by her experience working with children and her concern over boys becoming ever-more reluctant readers. She created these characters in the hopes that boys would get excited about both reading and aviation history. Her next installment of Airplane Adventures will include a female Nighthawk.

The story is well-complemented by line drawings from aviation artist Timothy O'Brien. https://www.timobrienart.co.uk/

Leona's book is very thoughtfully available in two English versions - one with British spellings, and one with American, so be sure to select the one appropriate for your young reader. Affiliate links for both can be found on the Literary Aviatrix website:

British: https://literaryaviatrix.com/product/aeroplane-adventures-flying-circus-takes-to-the-skies/

American: https://literaryaviatrix.com/product/airplane-adventures-flying-circus-takes-to-the-skies/

Toward the end of our interview,  we talk about Frederick Forsyth's The Shepherd, and the Canadian Broadcast Company's annual broadcast of a 1979 reading done by "Fireside Al" Maitland. If you'd like to join us in the Christmas Eve tradition, here's a link: CBC - As it Happens

Did you know you can support your local independent bookshop and me by shopping through my Bookshop.org affiliate links on my website? If a book is available on Bookshop.org, you'll find a link to it on the book page. By shopping through the Literary Aviatrix website a small portion of the sale goes to support the content you love, at no additional cost to you. https://literaryaviatrix.com/shop-all-books/

Thanks so much for listening!

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Blue skies, happy reading, and happy listening!

-Liz Booker

Transcript

Leona Cobham Interview

[00:00:00] Liz: Hello and welcome. I'm Liz Booker, Literary Aviatrix, and I'm excited to talk with the author of a fun middle grade book that features anthropomorphized vintage aircraft in what will soon be the Aeroplane Adventures series. The first of which is Flying Circus Takes to the Skies. Leona Cobham, welcome. 

[00:00:33] Leona: Hello, Liz. Thank you. It's an honor to be here in such illustrious company. 

[00:00:39] Liz: Well, you're right. We have had some amazing authors on and you're adding to that list with this wonderful children's book, please give us a synopsis of this book and where this is heading. 

[00:00:52] Leona: Right. So, I like to write about situational themes that are universal. That we can all relate to, that children can relate to, fear, embarrassment, conflict, how to feel enough, how to develop an inner feeling of significance, which doesn't depend on the approval of others. And I try to write so that the reader can resonate with the journey of my characters. So I take the point of view of one of the characters and tell a story.

And their viewpoint, of course, is colored by their past. So we could jump in and talk about my Tomcat, Tom the F 14, for example, in real life the F 14 was actually chosen over another prototype for his speed and maneuverability. And this makes my Tomcat's narrative of life a story he tells himself about what he must be to be enough.

It colors that, and it's a process of self discovery for him. To find that his friends are there for him, even when he's not performing, when he's not at the top of his game. And so, that's really how my books are. My, they're full of stories told by the point of view of one of the characters, and that carries the story, and through the character arc, and through the adventures I send them on, we accompany them as they dispel some of the lies they believed in, you know, and replace them with bigger truths.

So there's Woody, the little wooden biplane who's has this low self-esteem and craves external validation all the time. But through his experiences he comes to realize that validation is something you give yourself and he can actually be there for the other characters because of some of the unique characteristics that he has. And he, he sees that through the experience of, of actually being there for them. 

So that’s two of the characters. Then we have our Spitfire, Spiff, who's he's a natural leader and very traditional, and sometimes his sense of tradition can make him a little bit intolerant, and he struggles a little bit sometimes to just be flexible enough to deal with the modern world. And I'm actually really enjoying writing about his leadership qualities in my current book and what makes a leader. I'm telling one story from his point of view and it's lovely. And I hope that I tell the stories in such a way that we can laugh with the characters rather than at the characters. I try to carry my readers so that they're really empathizing with what my characters go through. 

And then the final character of the four at the moment is Vul, the Avro Vulcan. Who's just been through a lot and is really content in his own skin. Happy to have survived. He has this persisting sense of loneliness. And in one of the stories in the first book, he discovers that actually it's by helping out another aeroplane, and and getting him home, that he then finds happiness within himself. So, those are the four main characters who carry the story and then we'll, we bring in others to join them and sometimes their antagonists but yeah.

It's always a feel good story, you know, at the end. I like my children to know that things are going to be resolved, you know.

[00:04:49] Liz: Well, I have to tell you, I loved hearing you describe the characters in the way that you did through their character arcs and what they need, like their through lines.

It was such a pleasure to read this very creative presentation of these anthropomorphized historic aircraft working together as teams, having these adventures. And I think in this book you have two or three adventures. There's a race. There's a Russian aircraft that comes to visit who is kind of broken down and kicked to the curb by its people and, and our friend Vul helps him find his place to perform in an air show and, be honored again by his people.

I just, these stories were so sweet. It's such a creative way to introduce this history to young people, but also like you said, actually have a storyline that can resonate with them. So beautiful job on this, on this creative endeavor. And I have so many more questions about it. But before we get to those, I'm so interested - you give us a little taste of your relationship with aviation and aviation history, and I'm so interested to hear about you and all of that. 

[00:05:58] Leona: Oh, so I worked as I mentioned, I worked in Brazil for five years. And while I was there, I did some voluntary teaching in a shantytown. And that's where my interest in how kids learn began. And then I came back to the UK and I started working as a classroom reading assistant and writing a little on the side. 

I'd been personally immersed in the world of aviation from a young age because my, my grandfather was a pioneer of long distance flying and passionate about getting the people of Britain, air minded. He's Sir Alan Cobham, so he was well-known by pilots in the 1930s, who then were inspired by him to go and actually fly Spitfires and I, and sometimes I'll meet an old ace, you know, pilot who says, I started flying because your grandfather, which is really heartwarming, actually. 

So yeah, I was very fortunate because I traveled, I did a lot of long distance travel with my, with my parents and my dad would always say to us when we're at the top of the runway for take-off, he'd just say, look out of the window, stop and look out of the window, we're about to take off and, and that excitement of the aeroplane sort of trembling as the pilot opens the throttles and then just, tearing off down the runway and I'd look out and there'd be, with this enormous airplane a passenger airplane weighing who knows how many tons and the miracle of the, just the way that the air flows differentially over the top of the wing and under the wing, creating that lift.

It's just phenomenal. It never ceases to amaze me. And every time the airplane lifts, I just get this lift as well internally. And so, I was working as a reading assistant and helping children to read and finding that they were actually really struggling to get excited about what they were reading and I thought, gosh, if I could just put that excitement that I feel about flight into words and get them to enjoy it and, and resonate with the character arc at the same time that my characters go on, oh, that would be amazing. And I thought, well, I'm going to give it a go. So I started writing. 

[00:08:37] Liz: Oh, that's wonderful. Well, that's, that's an amazing story. Do you fly yourself? 

[00:08:45] Leona: No I don't. I have done some. Just like if, if ever there's an opportunity, if I'm in some tiny airplane, we went to Belize recently and we had our own like little chartered flight. So I said to the pilot, please could I come and sit at the front and I started talking to him, telling him about my books. And he said, right, well, do you want to take control? So, ah, that's so exciting. So I've done a bit of that and I've done so much reading about flying.

I mean, you can, my Bible is the aeronautical information manual.

[00:09:15] Liz: I saw the aeronautical information manual behind you, and I was like, oh, she must be a pilot. 

[00:09:21] Leona: I just, I'm a wannabe but 

[00:09:24] Liz: It’s never too late. Well, eventually it'll be too late, but right now it's not. Well, that is such a wonderful story and you've done it. You've done it very successfully.

Like, I have a Master of Fine Arts in writing for children and young adults. So obviously, like you being in the classroom and you have children of your own, is that right? 

[00:09:43] Leona: I do. I have two boys. 

[00:09:45] Liz: Yeah. So you've been around sort of the literature that, that kind of works for them and the language and stuff. And did you use any other resources to be able to put a story like this together? Like, well, tell me about that writing journey and how you got this particular book to print. 

[00:10:02] Leona: I was and I am absolutely enthralled by the process of writing a good plot and then hanging the character arc on that plot. 

And there's a sort of magic that happens. You have a question, the dramatic question that drives the character in a story and the strong plot has to be centered on that dramatic question and it must be answered through the course of the story. Every element in a story needs to it exists in service of answering that question.

And I think that there's some sort of magic in that. And I think I started to research that aspect of writing, the craft of writing a plot which can carry the character arc. You know, I think that that's super important when you first start writing, particularly, you know, you, you have this feeling, oh, I really want to write. Oh, this is what I have to say. Okay, that may well be, but if you don't have a compelling story, your reader, you've got to carry your reader with you, particularly youngsters, you know and in the same way, I want to convey lots of information about flying. And I, but you can't do that. without having a pretty good adventure to hang it all on, otherwise, it's a reference book and it's boring, you know? So, there's some sort of, you know, it's like mixing a potion, isn't it? You put in all these ingredients and then you just let the magic happen. So, yeah, I think I'm super aware of those factors when I'm writing. I 

[00:12:03] Liz: Well, I confess that I have a novel that, anyone who's been listening to my interviews knows I've been working on forever that has, like I'm stuck with some stuff in the middle. 

We don't have a whole lot of conflict going on there, but we're at an air show and I want to tell you that reading your little story kind of got some creative juices going about some things that I could do to kind of spice up that part of my book because once I get that solved I'll be ready to share this book with the world. That's really lovely, so you just figured out how to do all of this on your own and you wrote this story And then how did you get it to print?

[00:13:13] Leona: Yeah I mean, we're so fortunate, aren't we, in the time that we live in, because we, we can self-publish, we can use Amazon, we can use IngramSpark, this is the age of the self-publisher, and I'm so fortunate, because when I originally approached publishers quite a long time ago. We're talking 10 years ago.

They said, well, you know, the genre, we don't know about talking airplanes for that age group. We think it, maybe, you know, you need to be dumbing it down. Maybe it's more a picture book. And I was like, no, no, that's not, I don't want to write a picture book. You know, when you first start out, you, like my biplane, your self-esteem's a bit low, you're a bit sort of like, oh, okay, maybe I should try and people please, maybe I should try and alter and I don't know if you can as a writer, I think that any kind of artistic endeavor requires you to be yourself, doesn't it?

And if you're doing it for someone else, That's quite tough. I mean, I take my hat off to ghost writers who just manage to, you know, produce on demand. I can't. This comes right from my heart. And so to, to be able to now just have the freedom that self-publishing has given me. Is extraordinary. I feel so fortunate.

[00:14:13] Liz: Well, you've done a very fine job with this book as a self-published book. It has very beautiful art in it to supplement the story. And then, you must have had an editor to help you. So what other resources did you tap into? 

[00:15:26] Leona: I have an editor who really doesn't do a huge amount, he didn't do a huge amount for the first one, now let me, you know, he may say, with the second one, oh, Leona, I'm not sure about this, you're going to have to rewrite this. He may do that. He didn't do it with the first book, mind you, I had spent a lot of time preparing the first book. Now the second book I spent a fraction of the time on comparatively because you write one and then you think, right, the momentum is there. Let's get the next one out. So I don't know. I hope that my lovely editor, Gareth Collinson, he doesn't feel that he has to give me too much to do when I submit the book to him. 

I tell you who my, my editors are, my children, because they're fantastic. And, and when you read a book out loud, that is a real test, actually. That's when you can sense the rise and fall. And if you're reading it to a child, you can tell very quickly if it's just the child's losing interest.

They don't pretend to be interested, you know. They check their phones, and you think, oh no, he's taking his phone! That's disaster! Well so, now, actually, my youngest is 15, so he's above the age range. But he's very good at putting on you know, a cap of being a younger reader and he says to me, you know, he gives me pointers and it's fantastic and he does it in such a nice way, such a gentle way, you know, cause it's not always easy to have feedback, is it?

[00:16:26] Liz: No, no, it isn't. Yeah. So, and what about your illustrator? Tell us about that. 

[00:16:33] Leona: Timothy O'Brien. Yeah, I found him on Instagram actually. And he's just wonderful to work with, I must say it's, it's nice working with another creative because they get what it's like. So for example, last night, yesterday I said in the morning, I said to Tim, right, I'm sending you the first story of the new book. 

And it'll be with you in a couple of hours. And then I kept reading it and rereading it and changing it and then by half past eight last night. I sent him an email saying, it is done. And this morning I looked at my emails thinking, gosh, you can't expect poor Tim to be up and having looked at your book and it's, you know, only eight 30 in the morning.

I checked my email and Tim said, I've already taken a fast look. It's very thrilling. I'll need to read it again to get a real feel for the illustrations you want and I just thought, oh, that's great. I am so blessed. 

[00:17:38] Liz: So is he an aviation artist? Is that how you found him and why you chose him? Okay. Okay. Wonderful.

[00:17:44] Leona: He doesn't Disney-fy. I was really intent on not giving these Faces or making it too babyish. I wanted them to be line drawings, quite traditional style line drawings, the sort of thing you might see in Rupert the Bear, you know, or Tintin, that sort of feeling. And he got that. You know? 

[00:18:03] Liz: No, he definitely did.

And I'm so curious to know why you picked those four aircraft in particular. Something inspired you to use those four aircraft. You've got, like you said, you've got your, your wooden biplane, who's very slow, has, you know, challenges, and also sort of the romance that goes with that.

You've got your Tomcat, who is fast. You've got your Vulcan, which I assume, you included because of your family history, right? Because not only you said that your grandfather was involved in long range flying, but I think I read that he also was sort of the developer or contributed to developing aerial refueling. Is that right? Yeah. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth about why you, and then the Spitfire is just a classic aircraft. I don't know how you could leave it out especially with the UK history. 

[00:19:05] Leona: Well, this is it. You see, so I have my, I have, I have little models my characters here that I, I, they sit next to me.

I've got a Nighthawk in the new book. She's a girl. 

[00:19:15] Liz: Good. Yeah. We were going to talk about that.

[00:19:20] Leona: Yeah, well, the Vulcan, I mean, you know what's funny? Sometimes I watch YouTube videos of just people who've like posted something about an interaction that took place, say, between an F-14 and a Vulcan and then I read all the comments and the number of people who say, oh, they either say, oh, the F-14 is so cool. It's an absolute iconic airplane, you know, or they say, oh, the Vulcan, the Vulcan is the best, the noise. And I know I agree, you know, I just feel that those, those two in terms of modern aircraft are just, they just. They are special, the F-14. And I think there's no, there's no coincidence that the F-14 was included in the latest Top Gun film because it's just so iconic.

Yeah. And then the, the Vulcan. Well, the Vulcan has a long history. I mean, it's been around since the 50s, but also it had, we used to see the Vulcan air shows and people would just be, people would actually go to an air show because the Vulcan was going to be there. 

And then we all tried to raise money to keep the Vulcan, the last Vulcan flying, you know, and when we became aware that it was the actual final flight, the last flight of the Vulcan. Oh my goodness, people were crying. It was so emotional, it really was, you know, you'd go to an air show and you'd see the last, the final time, you knew this was the last time you'd see a Vulcan.

The sound of that aeroplane, you know, and the beauty of it. So yeah, I had to, I had to have a Vulcan, just, just wonderful aeroplane. 

[00:21:05] Liz: There are none, no historic Vulcans that are flying anymore? Aww, I'm so sad.

[00:21:10] Leona: I know. So that's why Vulcan is a little, my character, he is a little bit sad, you see. Cause and in his backstory is that he spent a long time in a hangar, not knowing whether he was going to be able to fly, you know, again.

And he was actually rescued by the Flying Circus who, this group who put on air shows. So he was brought out and they put in, invested all the money. It's a dream that they invested all this money and got him flying and fit to fly. So it's super important for him that he could then get that massive six-engined Antonov that you mentioned earlier, get him fit to be flown back to his country.

So that really resonated with Vul, you know, that this poor old Antonov didn't meet the same fate that he did. 

[00:22:00] Liz: Yeah, it was such just such a sweet story. And just again, such a creative way to introduce young people to this history. And, as you alluded to a moment ago, I kept flipping the page and waiting for a female aircraft character to show up. And we didn't get one in this book, but I did hear that your next book will have one. What, what kind of drove the decision for you in terms of gendering these aircraft? And what are you thinking about when you're deciding to include the female in the second book? Tell me about that. 

[00:22:31] Leona: Right. So when I was working as a classroom assistant, I was predominantly working with boys and I remember reading that the, National Literacy Trust did a study which showed that less than half of boys were now keen readers compared to 60 percent of girls.

And I just thought, gosh, boys, come on, reading is such an important skill. I know that your social skills that you get from the social media and all of that, that's super important too. And perhaps those, the social skills that you need, you don't get the depth of those skills by interacting with social media.

You actually can get some real depth by reading, and reading about some of these social challenges that my airplanes go through, which are the sort of things that you're going through at school as well. Yeah. But, but yeah, so I was really moved to just write books that I felt boys would enjoy.

I felt that there were a lot of books out there that were appealing to girls. So there was an element of a conscious decision there. I do feel that right now, boys are getting, boys and men are getting quite a bad rap. And I don't think it's necessarily all fair. So, I do feel strongly that I'd like to give them a bit of a boost and let them feel that someone's relating to them.

Someone's got their back, you know, a little bit but at the same time, yeah, I've brought in this Nighthawk in the next book and it's been a lot of fun writing a female character. 

[00:24:44] Liz: Well as a mother of boys and girls. And I like to say that I breed readers, however, my youngest does not read as much as my eldest, so I have three children 31 years old, 20 years old, and 11. And my eldest was an avid reader and he came up like -  he was seven when the first Harry Potter book came out. So he had a new book every year that he was excited to read. And then my daughter too was just a voracious reader. And then this one, he was when he was younger, but he's kind of fallen off.

So I appreciate, you know, that we do need more books that reluctant boy readers will enjoy. And you know, I can think of a lot in the library, thinking about when I was reading the over 200 books that I read for my master of fine arts for children, young adults, just some like really great books, like what you're doing to appeal to boys and keep them reading longer.

But on the flip side of that, I'm really excited for young women- yes there are lots of books for them, but in terms of their representation in aviation, both, you know, as their exposure as young people, just in general, whether it's through books or otherwise, and also our representation, our collective representation in, you know, the world of aviation is still so small that I'm all about exposing them to these cool aircraft and opportunities.

And when I was reading your book, I was like, well, what I remember through the lens of all of the things that I've been reading and talking about over the past couple of years in this project are women, the air transport auxiliary pilots in particular, in the Spitfire and how much experience they had flying that aircraft. And in fact, some of them saying, you know, I feel like this aircraft was designed for us because it was so small and they fit in it very well. So I totally respect what you're doing. I'm excited that you're including a female character in the new one because we have all of these gendered concerns to think about, you know, in our world.

[00:26:45] Leona: Yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah. How did you find your career? Because you were working in the field well before gender equality was really recognized properly. How did you? What was your experience?

[00:27:01] Liz: I think that, you know for me to say that I was ahead of that is, is probably wrong because the women who came before me, I mean, I started flying in 1997. So there was a huge, you know, group of almost 30 years of women flying before me to lay the groundwork for me to be there. But I mean, there's still not gender parity in aviation. Women in the United States make up less than 7%, 8% on a good day of pilots in general, and then less than 5 percent of air transport pilots like the people flying airlines and stuff like that.We were 8 percent in the Coast Guard. 

So how did I find my experience? It was ups and downs. I had many people who accepted me and supported me. I had wonderful mentors. And then I also had, you know people who didn't want me there and I had to deal with that. So the whole idea for me is to, you know, maybe shift that balance a little bit more in whatever way we can through stories to make it a more welcoming place and also to educate our boys. Let our boys when they're young know that women, girls can do things with them as they grow, and be equal partners professionally, and are just as capable as they are instead of letting them grow up thinking otherwise, so. 

[00:28:33] Leona: Agreed. Absolutely agreed. And I think it's super important also that we let them see that there's nothing to be afraid of.

They're not, they don't need to feel threatened because I think at the moment there is a little bit of that, you know, that right now they’re feeling a little bit on the back foot.

[00:28:50] Liz: Yeah, I hear you, and I see that especially in our militaries where we, the leadership fumbles quite a bit to try and do the right thing.

And when they try too hard or in the wrong way, they end up alienating, you know, the majority of their male members by doing so, and also isolating women even more. So it's been just a, it's just been a mess, the way we've gone about this, unfortunately, but there are people who are really working hard to make it better across the industry. So hopefully we'll get it right eventually and we'll have a good balance.

So what can we expect in this new book? Are we going to see the same four main characters? And when can we expect to see the book in print? And what's the title? Because we have the Flying Circus Takes to the Skies in this Airplane Adventure book. So what's the next one? Tell me more.

[00:29:49] Leona: So, I don't want to say yet. Because I'm not 100 percent decided on the title. Okay. But it'll have Flying Circus again in the title and it'll be a just a play on, on that. Yeah. Something original rather than Flying Circus Returns. The first book had three stories in it and the three stories were all of a fairly similar length.

Now, you know, as a writer, you'll understand this, you don't always know how a story is going to unfold and how long it's going to be, it's very difficult to sort of prescribe a length, right, you're going to write, every story is 3, 000 words, and sometimes it just isn't, sometimes a story is 6, 000, then another one's 2, 000, and you have to figure out whether your readers are going to just accept that, and I think children are actually quite accepting, or whether you want to cut and then try and fill out, which feels a little bit artificial sometimes. So at the moment, two of the three stories are done. The third, the outline of the third is done in this second book. And I have this issue that one of the stories is a lot longer than the other, but it's also very different.

So, the long one is a quite a serious story. They get into a scrape and this is the one that my illustrator came back this morning saying that was thrilling because it's, and the Nighthawk is in this one. And yeah, we explore radar, which is good. I love to explore technical aspects of aviation in the books, and do it in a way, as I said earlier, which isn't, isn't boring. 

You can actually see how radar works and the relevance of radar, and then how it doesn't work if you have a super stealthy airplane, like a Nighthawk and so on. So that's quite fun. And then there are, as you know, from reading the first book, there are technical terms that appear in bold in the writing.

The readers can just leaf through and look at the back and find out more about that subject. So they can leaf through if they want to find out about radar. It's explained in a very simple way. It's quite nice for me to understand some of these topics that when I was at school, they were just taught in such a way that it made it extremely difficult to understand.

And it was totally unnecessary to make it that complicated. Because actually radar is just like literally could use the metaphor of a torch and light beaming out of a torch. And reaching something, and then coming back, reflecting back, and the time it takes for that journey lets you know how far away that object is.

Simple. And so that's what I'd like to do in my book, so that children don't feel like, oh, you know, I can't go to sciences because I don't understand. Yeah. It's not as difficult as it's sometimes made out to be. So going back to this story, there's, there's an exploration of radar.

There's an exploration of runways and the sort of markings you see on runways and what they mean and what an airplane considers when it's coming into land. And in fact, I've got a little a little exclusive from the story that I'm telling you about of Tom coming into land. 

It's set in a, in a base, which is very high in the mountains. It's extremely cold. It snows all the time. There's ice on the runway and this is on purpose. The Flying Circus gets some exposure to extreme weather conditions and learn how to deal with that sort of challenging environment. 

So that's the first, the first story which I'll read you this exclusive extraction. And then the other, the second story that's already been written, which is shorter has been great fun for me to write because it's extremely funny. And I've actually had to do quite a bit of research on how to write comedy, you know, and comedy often needs to be quite short, it's slightly farcical, there's mistaken identities and it's written from the point of view of Spiff, the Spitfire. He's leading this commemoration of a very serious historical event and things start to go wrong and, and it's a real test of his leadership to keep everything on course. 

But very entertaining at the same time. So that's the second story. And then there's a third, the third story is about the role of airplanes in sometimes that we have these airplanes, which are military airplanes, but they're actually used for humanitarian missions.

As you, yourself actually, because you were involved very much in that. You were involved in humanitarian work and sometimes you had to deal with drug issues, tracking that sort of thing. And in this one, they need to put out a forest fire that has gone completely out of control. And so we look at a friend of theirs who comes along, a Chinook helicopter who is incredibly capable.

Yes. And they have to deal with accepting help, which isn't always easy either, is it? So that's the third story.

[00:35:43] Liz: That's wonderful. I'm so looking forward to this. Yes, well, give us the reading. I'm so excited to hear. 

[00:35:53] Leona: So, this is right at the beginning of the story when they're just arriving in this new base, right?

Soon the base came into view. “You go first Tom,” Spiff said. “Have a good look at the runway as you fly your approach.” Tom entered the pattern on a forty-five-degree angle to the downwind leg, flying towards the approach end of the runway. He combed the runway surface, looking for ice patches. “It's a mess, he told the others in dismay.”

He turned into the final leg, looking for the large white blocks painted on runways to mark the touchdown zone, which he liked to use as aiming points. Eventually he found them, heavily camouflaged under piles of grubby snow, untidy mounds scraped off the runway earlier and dumped there, now frozen solid again.

Tom started to feel apprehensive. “Keep descending at a constant rate. Maintain constant airspeed,” Spiff instructed from above. Tom adjusted pitch and power accordingly. “You're a little fast,” came Spiff's cautionary voice on the radio. Flaring for landing, Tom touched down on the 1, 500 foot markings at 170 knots.

He applied the disc brakes. There was a hiss of steam as his rear wheels came into contact with the freezing ice. He cut the power to idle and his nose wheel came down onto the runway. I'm still moving pretty fast, he thought as the crusty brown earth on either side sped by. In fact, I'm gliding, he realized with horror.

He applied reverse thrust, making the air push out of the front of his jets. Okay, I'm now quite a lot further down the runway and still moving pretty fast, he began to slide to the right. He applied left rudder to correct, but it made no difference. “Keep control of your direction, Tom,” came Spiff's quiet warning.

The advice is getting annoying, thought Tom. Spiff’s voice came again. “One thousand feet left. Five hundred feet left. Two hundred and fifty feet.” Tom saw the control tower rush by. In a last attempt to veer away from the cliff face beyond the end of the runway, Tom applied right rudder and right brake to force a spin to the right.

Round he went till he was facing the direction from which he had just come. Finally, he came to a stop. And for a moment, he just stared back up the runway. Then, taking a deep breath, he began to move cautiously towards the off ramp, muttering expletives. 

[00:38:25] Liz: Ooh, that's a tense day for a pilot and its aircraft, for sure.

And we know how annoying it is when our instructors keep giving us advice when we can already see what's going on. That's really annoying. You really captured a lot in that little excerpt there. Thank you for reading. That's so exciting. I'm so excited about this book. I have a few other questions for you before we wrap things up, though. 

So you, so you published this book, remind me when this one came out. It's this year? This first one was in this year in May. Okay. And what, how are you getting this book into the hands of readers? Thinking about other potential authors who decide to go the self-publishing route, you know, how does that work for you in the UK for you to get it into the hands of your target audience?

[00:39:18] Leona: Yeah, it's really tough actually. And I think you need to do as much research as you can, first of all, I'm a great fan of YouTube. There's a website called Kindlepreneur, and he gives out so much great advice about getting your keywords on Amazon correct, getting your categories correct. 

So that's all important stuff that you can do for yourself. And then on top of that, you don't have a publisher, you don't have somebody who's going to market your book for you, but on the other hand, you are more passionate about your book than any publishing house is ever going to be, right?

And so, don't see that as a drawback necessarily. You know, you have control now of your book. That's fantastic. If you want to make edits to your book, you can do that. And then you can just re-upload it if you've self-published on Amazon. That's all just fantastic stuff. But you also do need to be bold and approach bookshops.

Go out there, look at, if you don't already know what an advanced information sheet is, find out, there's resources to help you with that, putting together an advanced information sheet. That's what you need to present to bookshops. You need to make sure the barcode is going to be read, will read properly so that when they, when they scan it, they don't just come up with a blank, which can happen if you don't get it right.

You need to get your barcode from Nielsen's and it needs to match your ISBN. And then you need to make sure you're listed with a wholesaler called Gardner's. Gardner's is a company in the UK which basically has the monopoly on the supply of books to bookshops. So you need to make sure you're listed with Gardner's.

Now, that doesn't mean you can't use IngramSpark. You can. Gardner's have an agreement with IngramSpark, so you can still go ahead and have a print on demand model. And give your book to IngramSpark when you're uploading to Amazon, make sure you upload it with IngramSpark as well.

And then make sure and list with Gardeners and then just get out there and work as hard as you can. And if you can find somebody, I've been incredibly lucky in finding Helen Webb, who's she's a marketing, a natural at marketing. She's, she's a natural at just mixing with people. And she has been wonderful and generous with her help.

[00:42:06] Liz: Yeah, Helen how we connected, right? I see that she, she's like an air show promoter, primarily? Is that her job? That's right. Yeah. 

[00:42:15] Leona: Yeah. And so, that used to be her job. She used to promote one of the biggest air shows in this country, the Royal International Air Tattoo. And she's stepped back from that role now. 

But yeah, she's got the contacts and she's got the, the energy, you know, not everybody, not all of us are natural extroverts. And it's not easy for introverts to, to go out and just, do that public facing, do presentations and so on. So to have someone like Helen on your team, it's huge.

[00:42:46] Liz: That's wonderful. Okay. And, and how are things going for you with this book so far? 

[00:42:54] Leona: Slow, I would say, but you know, I think it takes time, and I think you have to have patience. The U. S. market is difficult for me, because I'm, I think it would probably help if I was physically there. I have published a book in U.S. spelling and the U. K. spelling, because for middle grade readers, I think that's probably quite important to see recognizable spelling. I mean, this book is the U. S. one, and it's even aeroplane is spelled differently. 

[00:43:25] Liz: Oh, see, I have the U. K. version, the aeroplane, which I ordered on Amazon. So, I have that version, and you know, you bring up a, a very important point.

My children went to school in Barbados for two years. My daughter was in early high school years, and my son was in like, preschool and first grade there. And they came back to the States and they were both a mess. They just were a mess. So, yeah, because of the British spelling of everything. So, yeah, actually. 

[00:43:54] Leona: Well, that's actually worrying me that so you went on us onto Amazon and in on the US platform and it presented you with the, the British spelling, did it?

[00:44:01] Liz: That's the one that I found, but what I will do is I will see if both are on Amazon and available to me and I will include, well, I'm waiting for your, I'm going to put this on my website because you wrote it, but definitely excited to have the female character, because that's what I say is that my, my website has books that feature women in aviation. 

And so because of your history and your story, I will include it there, and then when you get this other book out, it'll be perfect. But I will try to include both so that people know that they can get, that is an important point that I hadn't thought of.

And then when I think about other UK authors who I talk to who write for young people I wonder, this is not a question we've talked about before, so it's really interesting and important. 

[00:45:01] Leona: Yeah, it is. It's important, particularly for young readers, as I say. It should, I mean, it's certainly available on the U.S. platform in the U. S. spelling. The only thing I can do is take, remove the U. K., the reason that they've, they've presented you with the U. K. spelling is because the sales have been higher in the U. K., I think. And so they, they automatically present you with the, the one that is selling. best. So if I just take it down off the U.S. platform, if I can do that, I don't even know if I'm able to do that, but I will, I will do some research and find out. 

[00:45:34] Liz: I think so just thinking about like how, how you could get this book to your audience here. I think you know, there are opportunities, probably the most targeted of which would be potentially visiting Oshkosh the Experimental Aviation Association’s, Air Venture. The biggest air show in the United States would be a wonderful place to get your book to the U. S. audience. And then maybe get some reviews in some of the aviation magazines, and get the word out. But I will obviously be posting about it to my audience, many of whom have children and are buying books or thinking about what they want to get their children and their friends, children, their grandchildren for the holidays.

So hopefully this will be on their list. 

[00:46:27] Leona: Yeah. Thank you. That's wonderful. 

[00:46:30] Liz: I have one last question I'm going to spring on you, but before I do that was there anything that we haven't had a chance to talk about that you would like to talk about before we wrap up? 

[00:46:39] Leona: Well, I certainly want to just encourage young, new, not young necessarily, but new authors to, to persist with it. 

Just make sure that they have that dramatic question that I referred to right at the beginning of this interview. You know, make sure that you have, you give your characters a real motivation so the reader feels that there's a good answer to the question of why, why am I reading this? There needs to be a really good answer to that question. Why is this so important? I think that is absolutely key. If you get that, then you're on the way to success.

[00:47:24] Liz: That is wonderful advice. So, looking at this library behind you, and I know people listening can't see it, but you have quite the extensive library, a lot of aviation-related books.

So my question for you is, do you have a favorite? 

[00:47:45] Leona: Oh, goodness. Well, the Jeff Wellen book which is called First Light. That's an extraordinary book. He's written here, First Light. He was a Spitfire pilot in the Second World War. And he's just, this book is a very well-known book about the reality of serving in the Royal Air Force during that particular conflict.

So, yeah, that's a fantastic read. Another book that is very little known, but I think it's almost as good as Jonathan Livingston Seagull, and that's saying something because Jonathan Livingston Seagull is one of my favorite books ever, is a book by Frederick Forsythe. It's called The Shepherd. 

[00:48:40] Liz: Yes, oh my gosh.

Yeah. Well, I listened. So there was a Canadian radio reading of it done years ago. And while I was in my master of fine arts for writing probably 2014 my, I had a Canadian advisor and he was like, have you ever heard this story? And I was like, no. This is what we're 2023 now, every single year on Christmas Eve, before we go to bed, my husband and I put The Shepherd on and cuddle up with a glass of whiskey and here we have a fire even outside in Florida and we put it on and that's the last thing we do on Christmas Eve every year is listen to this story and I hear that there will be a Disney version of this. 

[00:49:30] Leona: How extraordinary that you have resonated as well with this story, because I don't meet many people who know this book, so, Liz, I'm really pleased, I'm so pleased to hear that.

That's really made me feel very close to you, I'm really pleased. It's such a 

[00:49:45] Liz: Have you heard the, have you heard the, the, the radio version of it? 

[00:49:49] Leona: No. 

[00:49:51] Liz: Oh, you'll have to do that. Yeah. You'll have to sit down with the boys on this Christmas Eve. I'll send you a link. This is, we do this every year. It's lovely. It's so moving. I think I get tears every single time. Yeah. 

[00:50:03] Leona: Yeah, it is moving, isn't it? I just found it incredibly moving. Oh wow, that would be amazing. And I can think of you doing the same with your family. So that's a lovely thing, isn't it? A lovely note to end on. Thank you for that. 

[00:50:16] Liz: Leona, where can we find you on social media, website?

Where can we connect with you? 

[00:50:23] Leona: Right, so I have a website called CobhamWings.co.uk and that is full of Aviation information all presented in an exciting way with, with some good quality images lots of current information, like forthcoming air shows and so on and some little blogs that I put on there so you can read.

Interesting anecdotes, short anecdotes, which are quite fun. So that's the main place. You can subscribe and you can also contact me through that, through the website. I'm setting up an Instagram account at the moment for the book. And I've got a friend helping me with that, so as soon as that is up and running, I will add it to the website, to my website.

[00:51:11] Liz: Well, Leona, thank you so much for your creativity in presenting this aviation history to our young readers. And yes, absolutely. I love the, the fact that you were trying to find ways to get boys to read more. And I'm also excited to see you include a girl, a female aircraft character for our young women to resonate with and read your books as well.

So thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much for your books. I can't wait to meet you in person someday. I will get over there and say hello to you and just the best of luck with all of your endeavors. 

[00:51:50] Leona: Thank you, Liz. It's been a real pleasure speaking with you.

Thank you for having me on the program. 

[00:51:57] Liz: Thanks so much for listening. Check out the Literary Aviatrix website for this and hundreds of other books by or featuring women in aviation in all genres for all ages. And while you're there, sign up for the Literary Aviatrix newsletter to stay up to date on all of the Aviatrix book news.

If you enjoyed this interview on YouTube or podcast, please like, subscribe and drop a review if the option is available. Just like book reviews, podcast reviews help our stories reach a broader audience. I'd like to thank Michael Wildes of Massif and Krew for his help producing this interview and for his support of all things Literary Aviatrix.

Blue skies and happy reading.